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hansmex
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smile Re: Sweet Home 3D 3.0

Hello all,

The new PNG transparency works! Even >> I << can do it!

What you see below is a yellow wall. In front of the wall is an invisible (!) box covered with a texture/picture. The picture is mainly black, but the white parts in the picture have been made transparent.
So, the yellow parts in the black are parts of the wall that are visible when looking through the box.

All six sides being covered with the same texture, this isn't very useful. But this could be very useful when you want to make custom parts with custom textures. Example: an invisible box that has a partially transparent texture applied to one of its (vertical) sides. I may have to play a bit more with this.

If only I had the patience to learn how to use the Gimp... :-)

Hans


[Oct 2, 2010 7:03:09 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
db4tech
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Re: Sweet Home 3D 3.0

Hi Emmanuel,

I see you've been busy! wink

As a note, I have added the comments in (brackets) to help other users know what we are talking about.

***

Good to see you found a way to allow compass rotations negatively from 0 (zero) and positively past 359 back to 0.

Also that you fixed this bug, did you recompile SunFlow to allow for a full Sunsky (the way the sky is produced when no texture is used) sphere, instead of the default 180 degree arc? I had thought of a different way to fix it for AdvancedRendering-1.6.2.

***

I do find the bucket spiral (render method) makes me feel a bit dizzy! smile
What are other users views?

I also looked at the different bucket order methods but there's no real speed advantage between them.

***

Different thoughts and ideas:

Firstly, please can you increase the "Plan" zoom factor x10 to help with positioning items less than 1cm in size. At the moment, while trying to move/drag very small items, other furniture handle options get selected first (Re-size, Height, Rotation and vertical scale)

One feature I asked about before. Please can you lock, the currently selected furniture item in the center of the plan view while zooming?

The way the Plan focuses on the center of the scene while zooming, instead of the selected item, makes it difficult to find the furniture item again, without re-selecting it from the furniture list.

***

Furniture lights (Light bulbs)

I now notice the light bulbs maximum brightness is much lower, are you still using the same formula you used before? If so please can you increase the power factor to compensate for the maximum returned figure of 100 compared to the previous value of 359, and bring the default bulb brightness down to say 30%?

Lights and cross-hairs:
Interesting to see you implemented the idea you mentioned before, about the cross-hairs only showing while selecting/edting a bulb. It would be helpful to have a preference option, to not hide the cross-hairs too! smile

I find it helpful to be able to see other lights cross-hairs in the 3D preview while positioning new lights, so I can gauge how large and small lights will work and fit together. At the moment, if I select more than 1 light to show both or all cross-hairs then all items will also be edited.

***

Sunsky: (the routine used to show a sky when a texture is not used)

Do you think it's time to retire the sky colour option since it only affects an OpenGL 3D preview and original OpenGL 3D render?

It has no effect on the Sunsky algorithm, either that or move the sky colour option to the texture side, offering either

"Default sky" or "Colour/Texture"

Then when a user selects a colour, internally SH3D will generate a graduated sky colour texture, with the users colour at the apex, or just below, of the sky dome.


On a slightly different topic. Now I've seen it in action, I'm not sure having the the Sun constantly enabled is a good idea?

***

Texture transparency and Caustics: (light shining through glass)
Are you using a modified Janino shader to provide texture transparency and fake caustics? wink

After doing some render compares, apart from the stronger glass colour, maybe a bit too strong? I notice there isn't much light fall off and overlapping shadows appear black, plus there's no shadow colour blending, which is why I thought you may be now using fake caustics.

Caustics version compare: Notice the overlapping shadow problem.
3.0


1.6.1 and 1.6.2



3.0


1.6.1 and 1.6.2




***

Lastly don't forget about me! biggrin

Right, I think that will do for this little post! laughing

Looking forward to seeing the source code.
Keep up the great work! smile

db4tech
[Oct 2, 2010 6:38:56 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Puybaret
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Re: Sweet Home 3D 3.0

Thank you all for your feedback smile

@pencilart
The newest doors and window you submitted use some transparency with a very dark color, which make them finally look almost dark in SunFlow. sad

@Hans
I'm glad you succeed to try transparent textures, but you know you don't have to go very far to find some existing models that use transparent textures too. Many plants are designed that way... wink

@db4tech
First the source code of the Beta version is generally available in CVS, and for example you can read the current version of the PhotoRenderer class here.

Good to see you found a way to allow compass rotations negatively from 0 (zero) and positively past 359 back to 0.
Finally, it wasn't so difficult to program... wink
For the blue sky that appeared during the night, I simply turned off Sun light when the sun is bellow the horizon.

I do find the bucket spiral (render method) makes me feel a bit dizzy!
I forgot to announce that change. I chose that order because I felt it's nicer to use a predictable rendering method that first shows the middle of the picture.

can you increase the "Plan" zoom factor x10
I'm going to try. Going to extreme scale factors might be confusing...

can you lock, the currently selected furniture item in the center of the plan view while zooming?
As the selection may contain items that are eventually out of sight, I'm not sure it's a good idea. What I want to try first is to zoom on mouse pointer location, when the user zooms with the mouse wheel + Ctrl/cmd key.

can you increase the power factor
The current factor is smaller than in the plug-in but I tried it at 100% with a light located in very large rooms and felt the value I finally chose was largely enough. Setting light power to 50% sounded also more reasonable than a much smaller value. Remind that Sweet Home 3D isn't designed to draw stadiums... wink

It would be helpful to have a preference option, to not hide the cross-hairs too!
I want that users understand that this sphere is bound to selection only and won't be taken into account at print or with image creation at the 2 lowest quality level.

Do you think it's time to retire the sky colour option since it only affects an OpenGL 3D preview and original OpenGL 3D render?
No, many users limit their use of Sweet Home 3D to its default values.

It has no effect on the Sunsky algorithm
I'll explain in the help that the chosen color is always replaced by a sunsky in the two highest quality level for photo realism sake.

Are you using a modified Janino shader to provide texture transparency and fake caustics?
No, the developer of SunFlow finally helped me to add support for transparency and transparent textures. By the way, again many thanks to him!

After doing some render compares, apart from the stronger glass colour, maybe a bit too strong?
It's the contrary: their color was too clear before. If you compare to the OpenGL view the glasses you show, you'll see they are supposed to be really green.
Caustics and current transparency management works a different way. Caustics might look more realistic but are much heavier to compute and didn't work with faraway lights. Your 2 examples are nice, but remind Sweet home 3D is for interior design purpose first. Therefore I prefer that users can see a light reflect in windows with the new transparency algorithm than they can generate the nice glass images you show.

Lastly don't forget about me!
Thank you for reminding me. It will be available from next beta version. smile
----------------------------------------
Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D developer
[Oct 3, 2010 9:00:33 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest    http://www.eteks.com [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
hansmex
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Re: Sweet Home 3D 3.0

Emmanuel,

Still not very happy with the compass disappearing under my model, I have a simple suggestion:
- The top-left corner of the 2D window lies at coordinates -100, -100;
- The compass is situated at -50,-50; diameter is 100;
- Insertion of models, insofar done automatically, is at 0.0.

I think this is the easiest way to make sure the compass pops up in a location that is almost always visible, and you don't have to program much.

Hans
[Oct 4, 2010 8:07:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Puybaret
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Re: Sweet Home 3D 3.0

I just updated the Beta version 3.0.

Caution! It introduces a change in preferences management: preferences, as well as furniture and textures individually imported in Sweet Home 3D catalogs (I don't speak about SH3F or SH3T files here) are not saved the same way from this version 3.0 Beta 5. All the existing preferences and previously imported files won't be forgotten, but all the ones you'll import from now won't appear in previous versions of Sweet Home 3D.

Why this change? For portability sake. smile
No need of the existing Export to SH3F plug-in or the unexisting Export to SH3T plug-in to backup or transfer your Sweet Home 3D configuration. From now, you just have to copy/paste the content of a directory from a place to the other. By default, this location still varies from an Operating System to the other following the same rule as before:
- under Windows Vista / 7, the folder to copy is C:\Users\user\AppData\Roaming\eTeks\Sweet Home 3D,
- under Windows XP and previous versions of Windows, it's C:\Documents and Settings\user\Application Data\eTeks\Sweet Home 3D,
- under Mac OS X, it's the subfolder Library/Application Support/eTeks/Sweet Home 3D of your user folder,
- under Linux, it's the subfolder .eteks/sweethome3d of your user folder.
You'll see that as soon as you updated preferences, these directories contain now a new file named preferences.xml that will replace system preferences from now.

But there's more: It's possible now to change the "preferences" folder where are stored preferences.xml and imported files, and the "application" folders where are stored SH3F, SH3T, SH3L, SH3P and recovered SH3D files. These folders are specified with the com.eteks.sweethome3d.preferencesFolder and com.eteks.sweethome3d.applicationFolders System properties.
Miserably it's not really possible to test these new options with Java Web Start, but I'll be pleased to read your opinion about the new options described in the javadoc comment of the com.eteks.sweethome3d.SweetHome3D class.
I hope these new options will satisfy most needs bound to portability and installations on local networks.

By the way, I'd like to know your desires about a portable version. Do you prefer:
- a big zip file that will contain Sweet Home 3D executables for each OS along with JREs for Windows, Linux 32 and 64 bits (probably something as big as 100 MB compressed / 300 MB uncompressed),
- a smaller zip file that will contain Sweet Home 3D executables for each OS without JREs that the user will have to install on his side (probably something 16 MB compressed / 23 MB uncompressed),
- a Jar executable file like the existing one that requires an installed JRE too (15 MB compressed / don't need to be uncompressed but people are not used to double click on a Jar file).
Of course, all these portable versions will store their preferences and other application data in a subfolder of the folder from which the portable program will be launch.


Finally, I also added the background image in the printed plan, if it's visible. If you don't want it at print time, hide it! wink

[Edit]I released version 3.0 Beta 6 one hour later this message to fix an annoying bug that deleted some of the imported files when preferences were modified in version 3.0 Beta then modified again in version 2.6. It ended up by new prefixes for furniture and texture imported files in preferences folder.
----------------------------------------
Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D developer
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Puybaret at Oct 4, 2010 11:31:27 PM]
[Oct 4, 2010 10:19:46 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest    http://www.eteks.com [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Puybaret
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Re: Sweet Home 3D 3.0

@pencilart & db4tech
I updated again how transparent window panes are computed in version 3.0 Beta 7, to ensure pencilart's models are rendered correctly with SunFlow.
This should also make the color of transparent items less strong.
I hope this time it will satisfy everybody. smile
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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D developer
[Oct 5, 2010 10:53:19 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest    http://www.eteks.com [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
pencilart
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Re: Sweet Home 3D 3.0

Looks Purrfect now! :D



Heeere's another one, this time with the glass door cabinets and I used a blue light too:

----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by pencilart at Oct 5, 2010 5:47:28 PM]
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Puybaret
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Re: Sweet Home 3D 3.0

Today's beta version brings the ability to render walls, floors and ceilings either as matte (the default), or as shiny, with new radio buttons added to Wall and Room dialogs.





As these options are available for each wall and each room, you'll be able to mix shiny and matte surfaces in your home if needed.
At this time, shiny surfaces are rendered with SunFlow shiny shader but I'd try to replace it by Uber shader, once I find a way to avoid the white spots experienced by fhoofman and others.
----------------------------------------
Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D developer
[Oct 5, 2010 10:58:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest    http://www.eteks.com [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
db4tech
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Re: Sweet Home 3D 3.0

the source code is available in CVS
Thanks for the link. smile

blue sky that appeared during the night, I simply turned off Sun light
Good thinking!

can you increase the "Plan" zoom factor x10
I'm going to try.... What I want to try first is to zoom on mouse pointer location
Sounds like a great idea!

The current factor is smaller than in the plug-in but I tried it at 100% with a light located in very large rooms and felt the value I finally chose was largely enough.. Remind that Sweet Home 3D isn't designed to draw stadiums... [;)
Hmmm after doing some tests, still not bright enough at 100%. wink Actually it's funny that you make that second point, with you not knowing a feature I've already added to version 1.6.2! biggrin

It would be helpful to have a preference option, to not hide the cross-hairs too!
I want that users understand that this sphere is bound to selection only and won't be taken into account at print or with image creation at the 2 lowest quality level.
I've been giving this some further thought, all other 3D applications (that I can think of) don't hide the lights place holder, when the lights aren't selected?

Users would easily learn that your new light sphere or lights place holder doesn't render.

There has been no misunderstanding so far about that feature added to 1.6.1.

All I ask is for a preference option to let a user choose, so they can make their own decision. smile

3D Lights placeholder
Hide unselected:
Show unselected:


I don't mind if you want to make your bizarre idea the default option. tongue (Couldn't resist a bit of harmless teasing, after you called my original (temporary!) light control method bizarre. biggrin)

No, the developer of SunFlow finally helped me to add support for transparency and transparent textures. By the way, again many thanks to him!
Fantastic news, maybe SunFlow does have a future after all! smile


stronger glass colour, maybe a bit too strong?
It's the contrary: their color was too clear before. If you compare to the OpenGL view the glasses you show, you'll see they are supposed to be really green.
I did and here are the results.

Knowing that there can be subtle differences between graphics cards and driver colour representations, I tried to do a tougher test as possible.
As an extra note, my screen is colour calibrated and I'm using an Nvidia graphics card.

Added the render images again, to save users scrolling back and forth between posts.


OpenGL 3D


DirectX



VMware virtual computer drivers OpenGL 3D


VMware virtual computer drivers DirectX


1.6.1 & 1.6.2 render


3.0 beta 4 render


3.0 beta 7 render


Also took some real compare photos, trying to simulate the render: Only have 2 Hi Ball Tumbler glasses though. smile



To my eyes the original glass colour (as seen in 1.6.1 render) is the most accurate to real life so far, and fairly closely matches OpenGL 3D and DirectX previews. Obviously this will vary slightly for people viewing this thread on uncalibrated screens.



Other Ideas for 3.0
One request I made before was for, the ability to lock the size proportions on the furniture editing dialog box , this would greatly help when re-sizing items (like it is by default when importing an object)
This doesn't have to be a wordy or complicated affair, I think something like The GIMP uses would be the easiest, and is also language independent.

Proportions locked



Proportions unlocked


While editing light bulbs size, the proportions should be automatically locked (and the proportions unlock option grayed out)
So that users understand that the lights (no matter what size they enter in 1 field, because they are sphere lights) the lights always expand the same amount in all directions.


Thank you for your work on 3.0 and for implementing the matt and shiny wall options. smile

db4tech
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by db4tech at Oct 6, 2010 3:58:10 PM]
[Oct 6, 2010 3:37:15 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
hansmex
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Re: Sweet Home 3D 3.0

db4tech, Emmanuel,

I very much like the idea of a lock function for furniture size. The link icon would be perfect, as far as I'm concerned. You could add a tool tip when hovering over the icon to explain what it does.

Hans
[Oct 6, 2010 4:10:55 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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