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Puybaret
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Re: Simulate sun position and lights/shadows

You do realise as a photographer I'm now going to ask you for the ability to control the depth of field by selecting an aperture setting from a drop down box (f/1.0 - to f/22) and also the ability to choose the point of focus
As an amateur photographer myself, I would be tempted to add these settings myself too. But as Sweet Home 3D developer, I prefer to keep it simple and propose more depth of field choices to advanced users.
The idea I have in mind now, is to propose maybe 6 different "depth of fields" in the Lens combo box:
- Short depth of field / Focus 1m,
- Short depth of field / Focus 2.5m,
- Short depth of field / Focus Infinity,
- Great depth of field / Focus 1m,
- Great depth of field / Focus 2.5m,
- Great depth of field / Focus Infinity.
What do you think of this idea?

Are the new larger size lights available to download or does the new plug-in interpret the 3 lights as a larger by default?
The new plug-in interprets all light sources as twice larger.

If you want to create soft shadows maybe you could use reflected lights close to a shiny surface or an umbrella as a real photographer would do. wink
In case you need it I created the umbrella 3d model you can import.
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Attachment umbrella.zip (9407 bytes) (Download count: 1159) (Shiny umbrella 3D model.)

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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D developer
[May 10, 2010 9:09:17 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest    http://www.eteks.com [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
db4tech
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Re: Simulate sun position and lights/shadows

Hi,
I like your idea of offering a choice for different depth of field. will you be sticking to the laws of physics in that a close focus point always allows a shallower depth of field than a further focus point?

Not sure if this link might be useful.


One question in connection with shallow depth of field does SunFlow only have one method of blurring the out of focus areas?

From my first render, with shallow depth of field, sadly SunFlow doesn't produce smooth bokeh, which even though it is out of focus, it doesn't make it look as out of focus as it could be as some edges are quite sharp and angular. sad

db4tech

PS: For those wondering what 'bokeh' is, in photography it is the quality of an out of focus area in a photograph, some camera lenses produce nice silky smooth graduations in the out of focus areas, while others produce strange uneven busy patterns.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by db4tech at May 10, 2010 11:00:04 PM]
[May 10, 2010 10:52:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Puybaret
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Re: Simulate sun position and lights/shadows

A bokeh parameter is available in SunFlow but I didn't try it.
I'll have to try it. wink
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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D developer
[May 10, 2010 11:08:41 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest    http://www.eteks.com [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
db4tech
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Re: Simulate sun position and lights/shadows

Sounds interesting!


I have created some extra (coloured) lights for use when using Emanuel's new Advanced rendering plug-in.

There are 8 new lights in total (also notice the fireglow) smile



The original basiclights.sh3f will need uninstalling or duplicate names will show, this pack also contains the original lights. All lights including originals have been renamed, so when used in a model they will all stay together on a furniture list, making finding them and editing easier.

These have been cleared with Emmanuel.

Have fun!
db4tech

Edit: Fix and replace broken image link
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Attachment BasicPlusExtraLights.sh3f (138071 bytes) (Download count: 828)

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[Edit 1 times, last edit by db4tech at May 11, 2010 1:18:04 AM]
[May 11, 2010 12:46:22 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Puybaret
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Re: Simulate sun position and lights/shadows

Nice experimentation. smile
I'm glad you discovered by yourself that the lightSourceColor property could be any color!

For anyone tempted to create its own lights with SH3F files, note that the 4 keys in a PluginFurnitureCatalog.properties file that defines the light sources of the nth piece:

lightSourceX#n=
lightSourceY#n=
lightSourceZ#n=
lightSourceColor#n=

can cite one light source as in the following example:

lightSourceX#1=5
lightSourceY#1=5
lightSourceZ#1=5
lightSourceColor#1=#FFFFFF

but also more than one light source as in the following example with 3 lights of different colors:

lightSourceX#1=0 5.5 11
lightSourceY#1=0 11 0
lightSourceZ#1=5.5 5.5 5.5
lightSourceColor#1=#FF0000 #00FF00 #0000FF


Note axis directions when you define the x, y, z coordinates of each light source:

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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D developer
[May 11, 2010 8:45:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest    http://www.eteks.com [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
db4tech
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Re: Simulate sun position and lights/shadows

Puybaret wrote:

Hi,

I just released the version 1.2 of the Advanced rendering plug-in with the following new features:
- I removed the threshold set on shininess. In the previous version, a shininess smaller than 64 was ignored. If some objects get too shiny, you can decrease their shininess by setting the "Ns" value in their MTL file (a 0 or 1 value meaning not shiny) and reimport them, or by setting their color in Sweet Home 3D with the furniture modification dialog.
- I enlarged a little lamp lights to soften shadows.

Hi Emmanuel,

When importing .obj files (created in Art of Illusion) into Sweet Home, then rendering using your Advanced render 1.2 I am still only able to produce either a matt finish or glass like surface with nothing in between:

(Art of Illusion Wooden floor.obj Texture shininess 0.0, Wooden floor.obj then imported and rendered with Sweet Home 3D)




(Art of Illusion Wooden floor.obj Texture shininess 0.1, Wooden floor.obj then imported and rendered with Sweet Home 3D)




The Art of Illusion texture shininess setting goes all the way to 1.0 , the most I have used is 0.1 and still getting glass like reflections, what am I doing wrong?

This is the type of reflection I would like (Photoshop mock-up)



Are there some other values I can alter to produce a slightly shiny floor like in my Photoshop sample or is it a limitation of SunFlow?

If it is a SunFlow limitation would it be possible to use another render engine from within Sweet Home like YafaRay or does it have to be a Java based engine?

Yafaray render.


PS: The floor texture I used is from a free texture source.
Oh and larger lamp lights please for when not using the ceiling light setting. wink

Thank you in advance for your help.
db4tech
[May 15, 2010 9:18:38 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Puybaret
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Re: Simulate sun position and lights/shadows

Art Of Illusion exports the shininess and the roughness of a texture in the Ks and Ns values of the MTL file accompanying an OBJ file. Ks values is rendered in Sweet Home 3D as the specular color and Ns is used to know how shiny is an object.
When I translated these values in SunFlow renderer, I chose to use a diffuse shader for matt textures and a shiny shader for shiny textures (with a Ns value > 1).
Maybe I didn't make the best choice for the final rendering, but I preferred these shaders because they worked pretty well and quickly. In the facts, even for a very small shininess value, SunFlow's shiny shader still renders a texture quite shiny as you saw.

The following image shows how a sphere may be rendered with the various shaders available in SunFlow:



I guess I should better use uber shader instead of shiny shader, but the little white dots you can see on row C2 and C3 doesn't make a photorealistic rendering at all...

[...] would it be possible to use another render engine from within Sweet Home like YafaRay or does it have to be a Java based engine?
From my point of view, the first conditions are free license and portability: it must run on all systems where Sweet Home 3D is available. Then, it's easier to integrate a rendering engine programmed in Java from a Java program, than running a separate process that you can't easily integrate in the program.
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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D developer
[May 15, 2010 11:27:33 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest    http://www.eteks.com [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
db4tech
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Re: Simulate sun position and lights/shadows

Thank you for the information.

I have just tried several NS values and found 1=matt surface any setting above 1, even 1.000001=full glass like reflections, the shiny shader always seems to produce full glass like reflections no matter what value above 1 is set.

If you decide to do some tests to see how Uber rendering compares does that then mean the glass objects will render, allowing light rays through also allowing caustics?
With the Uber render example aren't the dots just the multiple light sources they used? In which case they won't be a problem with room rendering.

Yes I should have mentioned, YafaRay is open source and is available for Windows, Mac and Linux.

Thank you for your reply.

I would be quite happy to beta test Uber rendering for you.
db4tech
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by db4tech at May 16, 2010 12:23:34 AM]
[May 16, 2010 12:21:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
db4tech
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Re: Simulate sun position and lights/shadows

Is this information helpful?



Importance sampling turned on (lock false) (Looks a lot better)

So a conclusion one could draw from these tests is that when using the phong and uber shaders with high power and glossy values respectively, using importance sampling can reduce the light points from the ibl. Increasing samples does not rid the phong and uber shaders of, what Kirk referred to as, “constellations.”

I've probably not understood the complexity of the shaders. So from a layman's perspective. If Uber shader doesn't work well or is too slow, could you use the shaders you were using before but insert a Phong shader in the middle?

Diffuse shader for matt surfaces, Phong shader (C1,C2 and C3) for slightly shiny surfaces then Shiny shader for glass like reflections?

If I have oversimplified the operation of the shaders and got it all wrong I hope my post makes you smile and brightens your day smile

db4tech


Update:
On closer inspection Phong shader C1 looks very strange, maybe Uber shader with importance sampling turned on might be a good all round solution, what are your thoughts?



Edit to add update
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by db4tech at May 16, 2010 12:46:43 PM]
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Puybaret
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Re: Simulate sun position and lights/shadows

If you decide to do some tests to see how Uber rendering compares does that then mean the glass objects will render, allowing light rays through also allowing caustics?
I think transparency management is an other problem, but now that I finished DAE/Collada support in current beta version, I'm going to work on it.
I've made some tests with caustics too, but it slows down rendering process too much (for more information about caustics please read this nice article). I feel caustics are probably nice to render one or two transparent objects but not a whole scene with many potential transparent objects.

I would be quite happy to beta test Uber rendering for you.
Thank you. Your help will be precious since rendering process is often lengthy and I don't always think to test special camera locations like you did. wink

If Uber shader doesn't work well or is too slow, could you use the shaders you were using before but insert a Phong shader in the middle?
I never tried using multiple shaders per object. I'll have to test that. Thank you for the idea! smile
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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D developer
[May 19, 2010 7:51:11 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest    http://www.eteks.com [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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