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Ceciliabr
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Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.)

Ever since I started using SH3D, I have been plundering with setting the right time in the renderer. I have always thought the trouble was in my own head, since I have often been told that left-handed people have their brains cross-wired.
But I think I learned at some point, probably when I lived in London, that the designation AM, refers to the hours between midnight and noon, and that, as a mnemonic-tool, I could think of AM as "After Midnight". Of course I'm most comfortable with the 24 hour clock, and would surely appreciate it if SH3D could implement it as an option.

Midnight sun?




Eclipse?









Well, now that I have finally found out why I have struggled all these years and frequently been rendering images with daylight instead of night (and vice versa), I shall probably never make that mistake again. I'm still a bit confused about what's morning and what's afternoon, but it's probably a good exercise for a cross-wired brain to figure it out.

All the best. wink

Cec
[Aug 21, 2016 5:44:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    http://cecprojects.wordpress.com [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
okh
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Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.)

..surely appreciate it if SH3D could implement it as an option....
Under Win ENG language, but Scandinavian locale, I get 24 hour clock in the Create Photo dialogue, and 'correct' DMY. (But I still get . as a decimal mark when SH3D language is set to English - which leads to numerous typos on my part... - setting SH3D language to other European languages, however, changes the decimal mark to , )

No idea how the various settings appear, but it would be nice to set these defaults in SH3D (especially for those of us who have linguistically confused computers, with OS, keyboard and software languages are often different).

PS

BTW I also get the wrong city and lat/lon as a default in the Compass setting. Think it used to be Paris, but now it is Berlin. There is a post somewhere about how SH3D figures out timezone / location, but I cannot remember where. Not a big problem, but I did get some surprising rendering results a couple of times when forgetting to adjust co-ordinates / timezone.
[Aug 21, 2016 2:38:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Ceciliabr
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Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.)

@okh

*Sigh...* Not being able to enter decimals using the numeric pad, is a PITA. I have mentioned this before, and gotten the impression it has something to do with Jawa. Strange, really, in a world where the num-pad is so widespread, that the Jawa-people haven't discovered this yet. But they are maybe just using laptops, working outdoors, in the Sun.



The compass needs the coordinates to work properly. Choosing Nairobi doesn't put the sun in equator unless you specify the position.
I have bookmarked this page, which I find useful.

It would be nice, though, if the sunrise was in the morning (AM) and the sunset at night (PM) - I'm sort used to it smile

cec
[Aug 21, 2016 5:19:09 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    http://cecprojects.wordpress.com [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
okh
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Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.)

Yup, timezone/city for clock, and co-ordinates for sun height. That is within my comfort zone, if not, I would be lost at sea, so no problem setting them right. The only thing I cannot figure out, is why SH3D originally placed me in Paris and now Berlin by default (both city/timezone and co-ordinates). But, as long as I remember to set the SH3D compass, I generally know where I am.
working outdoors, in the Sun.
smile Quite...
[Aug 21, 2016 9:07:16 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Miker777
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Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.)

Hi Ceciliabr, Hi okh
I gave up trying to sort my position out for exterior images,
now i take a guess at night or day and through trial and error i rotate the compass untill i am happy with the result. biggrin
Mike
[Aug 21, 2016 10:08:51 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
okh
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Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.)

Hi Mike,

No need for guessing, getting it right is not difficult and once the compass is set with correct longtitude / latitude, orientation, time-zone (and date in the create photo dialogue), the sun rendering is very accurate. I seem to remember that even DST (Daylight Saving Time) is considered by the rendering engine (maybe even taking equation of time into account, but that I have not checked). A while back, Puybaret and I compared notes (after the blogpost about sunlight simulation) - and results seemed to be spot on. For instance, the evening sun disappears from my terrace exactly when SH3D rendering tells me it will. (Decimal grid, with standard GPS datum - wgs 84 - and true North - but in most cases this is default, and differences from earlier European Datum is marginal. The three digits in SH3D means the North/South position will be accurate to 111 metres, East/West even more accurate the further North you get. This accuracy is insufficient for navigation, but good enough for sunlight rendering). So for accurate sunlight rendering, do get the settings right: Should you be 5° off E/W, the sunset will be wrong by 20 minutes, and sun height (i.e. how much sun comes in the windows at different times of year) is significantly different in Northern Europe from the Med. If there are trees or other obstacles outside the home, location is key to finding out about sun and shade through the year.

But getting the settings right is easy if you use a gps (on a mobile phone if you like, wait for gps to get a proper fix) or are familiar with navigation/maps. Actually, it is easy even if you are not:

EASY APPROACH TO CORRECT SETTINGS:

Geographic location (position): Find your home on OpenStreetMap. Click on the location and zoom all the way in. The URL will now look something like this: www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.27987/1.08279: 51.27987 is degrees North and 1.08279 is degrees East (in this case, Canterbury Cathedral). Numbers will be negative for South and West. (The location can also be read from other online maps, albeit with a slightly different procedure. If the location is given in Degrees/Minutes, like Cec' link, the position must be converted to decimal: same degrees, multiply the minutes by 1,6666667).

North direction in degrees: can be read from the map, but the easiest is probably to use a compass aligned with the wall to read the degrees. Most phones come with a compass that is pretty accurate - exactly how it works depends on your compass/gps app.

This may sound a bit geeky. But correct settings are important not only for the sunlight rendering. Getting the position and direction right will also determine how to place a dish antenna, a terrestrial antenna, solar panels of all sorts, choice of windows' light emission, need for awnings etc. For instance, our satellite dish is totally hidden far back on a side wall with a very narrow margin. Were the wall at a slightly different angle, we would have had to place it in the middle of the facade. Solar and antennae calculations will require some additional work, but usually pretty straightforward to figure out with available online calculators (or playing around with some basic astronomical navigation smile ).

ok
[Aug 22, 2016 9:19:32 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
mazoola
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Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.)

Strictly speaking, 12:00 -- either one -- is neither a.m. nor p.m. Because of problems knowing which developers assign to noon and which to midnight, I always set alarms, timers, etc. to 12:01 [a.m.|p.m.]. I figure it's better being 1 minute late than 11:59 late -- or early.
[Aug 22, 2016 12:50:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Ceciliabr
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Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.)

I used to be placed in Oslo, as I can see when I open some older files. But after I moved, I'm by default placed in Copenhagen, with the correct coordinates.
How does SH3D know where I live? Could it be because my computer were bought in Denmark, and that I entered Copenhagen as my location when configuring it?
But I still have Norwegian as my preferred language, and I'm still using my Norwegian keyboard. (There's a slight difference in the layout between Norwegian and Danish keyboards, a slight difference that becomes very significant when writing touch - a bit like transposing Camille Saint-Saëns piano etudes a half note smile )


You didn't by any chance buy your computer in Berlin?

I have found no settings for 24 hr clock that has any influence on the render tool. Maybe it only works in Windows.


cec
[Aug 22, 2016 7:46:26 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    http://cecprojects.wordpress.com [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
bdfd
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Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.)

How does SH3D know where I live?
Warning, big brother is everywhere... d oh
----------------------------------------
with W10 64b 1709 (16.299.125) / Core i7-4790 - RAM 16 MB / GeForce GTX770 2 Go Full HD
sh3d 5.6 with java 1.8.0_144 & java3D 1.6.0
[Aug 22, 2016 7:59:47 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Ceciliabr
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Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.)

@mazoola

Yes, there are different opinions about what is noon and what is midnight. Even if I advance the clock by one minute, I still wonder; is 12:01 AM one minute past noon, or one minute midnight?

That's why the 24hr clock is so genius. Why, I wonder, are we still using the 12hr clock in a digital domain, when the alternative is so obviously superior?



cec
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