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bdfd
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Re: How to create a down light embedded in the ceiling

@cec,
It was just a very little detail (5,5 cms over) for your great work !
Regards.
----------------------------------------
with W10 64b 1709 (16.299.125) / Core i7-4790 - RAM 16 MB / GeForce GTX770 2 Go Full HD
sh3d 5.6 with java 1.8.0_144 & java3D 1.6.0
[Sep 30, 2017 1:15:43 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Ceciliabr
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Re: How to create a down light embedded in the ceiling

@okh

all downlights here are directed towards my better half's wardrobe while mine is left in darkness

What had you expected? You men can wear the same suit for years ( like Obama, who didn't change his tux once during his eight years of presidency)
Imagine a woman wearing the same dress twice! The Norwegian princess recirculating her wardrobe... pføy!!!
The fashion critics had a field day!

So stop sulking! Ever since the early stone age, any caveman has been capable of examining the contents of a dimly lit armory wink .

It seems the cutout is less important than I thought in terms of using lights placed above the ceiling.

With the entire light source above the ceiling, you definitely need a cut-out for the light to be visible.
I have taken the liberty to adjust the height of your light sources, and made some renderings:
Here is the original file, unchanged, but with a different camera angle, that allows us to se the ceiling. Notice the black dot in the middle of the right downlight. That means the light source is intersecting the ceiling, whereas the left downlight, with a cut-out, is perfect.



Here I have adjusted the height of the light source of the downlight with the cut-out ( and made it smaller in order to get a more focused light beam).
On the right rendering, both light sources are above the ceiling.




BTW: Your reference to Thread 7108 reminded me of a question I forgot to ask:
How did you make the SVG-file with the animation?


cec
[Sep 30, 2017 2:15:04 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    http://cecprojects.wordpress.com [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
okh
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Re: How to create a down light embedded in the ceiling

What had you expected? You men can wear the same suit for years ... So stop sulking!
smile Me, sulk? Never! And women waring the same dress twice? Perish the thought.
..entire light source above the ceiling, you definitely need a cut-out for the light to be visible...
Oops, seems I did not test as thoroughly as I thought. You are absolutely right. Good news is that the SVG exercise can be of some use.
How did you make the SVG-file with the animation?
Short answer is: with the help of a text editor.

Longer answer is that the trouble with SVG (and to some extent with HTML / CSS), is that most editors are limited and do not really let the user exploit the full potential of the format. Inkscape, for instance, is a wonderful piece of software, but does not (I think) support animations natively. Which means that I amateurishly try to do like my more competent (and puritan) friends, write the code manually.

The animation in thread 7108 was just a first experiment. Basically just using W3C SVG Animation and MDN <animate> code plunked into and SVG file with a text editor. Not elegant, but I proved to myself that it could be done without too much effort.

SVG animation
has a great potential, including the possibility to animate raster graphics supported by SVG (like png/jpg). A downside is that it is not supported by Microsoft / Internet Explorer.

ok

PS BTW, there are several techniques to animate SVG, including CSS.
[Sep 30, 2017 4:46:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
okh
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Re: How to create a down light embedded in the ceiling

It struck me that if Cec absolutely insists on pointing the downlights on her own wardrobe, it might be better with a downlight suited for just that purpose. Recently bought a set of LED downlights where the light pivots inside the cap, meaning it looks flat even when the light points towards a warderobe. So I posted a quick model angled 45° in the same ticket. Main point is that the cutout will be different, but also a tribute to Cec approach. Now all that remains is to see whether I am patient enough to use it for my own projects...

ok


[Oct 1, 2017 4:10:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Ceciliabr
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Re: How to create a down light embedded in the ceiling

@ okh

I didn't get around to try it until to day, but it works and looks very good.

And then I got an idea...
A downlight embedded in the ceiling must consist of minimum two elements:
A pipe (to perform the cut-out) plus a light source, since, as far I have understood it, a 3d model can't hold
both a cut-out and a built in light source at the same time.
But a reflector with a light source in it should be possible to make, and using a reflector formed as a spotlight
with a light source inside it, we will be able to easily rotate the light beam in any direction and almost any angle
we want, and not have to worry about the shape of the cut-out.
I thought it was worth a try.

Well, I gave up. My head wasn't working, so I ended up with a spotlight with no embedded light source.
But it works:




This is as far as I got: circle_cutout_with_spotlight.sh3d
Maybe you want to give it a try?

It's time to put the man in the spotlight...




cec
----------------------------------------
[Edit 2 times, last edit by Ceciliabr at Oct 5, 2017 10:02:58 PM]
[Oct 5, 2017 9:58:33 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    http://cecprojects.wordpress.com [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
okh
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Re: How to create a down light embedded in the ceiling

quote].. reflector formed as a spotlight
with a light source inside it, we will be able to easily rotate the light beam in any direction...Yes, it is exactly something like this that would be useful. But to take it to a more generic level, a lamp in the basic collection that can be turned and focus the light in any direction. This should be useful in many contexts.

As for the downlight, another thought struck me. If I remember correctly, a model in a library imported with both lightsource and staircase-cutout will strip either the light-source or the staircase from the properties in PluginFurnitureCatalog.properties.

What if the model/properties was not taken through the import process, but if both lightsource and cutout was added to the model <pieceOfFurniture> manually in the home.xml entry? Shot in the dark, and I do not expect it to work, but unless someone jumps in tells me it will not work, I also will not be able to resist the temptation to try.

But later. My head is not working either. Down with a cold.

PS

And as you know Cec: det er ikke noe sykere enn en syk mann... Så nå har jeg nok med å pleie min selvmedlidenhet. Men i det minste kan jeg avhjelpe med en Calvados i kveld.
[Oct 6, 2017 10:09:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Ceciliabr
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Re: How to create a down light embedded in the ceiling

@okh

to take it to a more generic level, a lamp in the basic collection that can be turned and focus the light in any direction. This should be useful in many contexts.


Agree!
But then it would need to have a separate mounting bracket for wall or ceiling – a bracket that was connected to the spotlight, but not affected by the angle or direction of it.
In order for that to work, we would need a possibility to define our own anchor-points. Like it is now, the pivot is glued to the centre of the object, but by defining our own anchor-points and then maybe connect objects at their anchor-points...

Alternatively, two separate objects might work: a bracket and a reflector.



... especially if the reflector had a light source embedded...


Get well!






Cec



edit:

Spotlights.sh3d
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Ceciliabr at Oct 7, 2017 11:20:10 AM]
[Oct 7, 2017 11:14:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    http://cecprojects.wordpress.com [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
okh
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Re: How to create a down light embedded in the ceiling

Two approaches tested and posted in SF 3D models 400.
First combining cutout and light in one model.
- Apparently not possible with FurnitureLibraryEditor / PluginFurnitureCatalog.properties.
- However in Home.xml (within the .sh3d file) a model with light is called <light ..>, while normal models are <pieceOfFurniture ..>.
- While a <pieceOfFurniture ..> cannot (I think) take light properties, a <light> seems to support staircaseCutOutShape
The downside is that a <light > model cannot be rotated along three axis as can a <pieceOfFurniture>
spot_light_cutout.sh3d


Second, spotlights with lightsource that can be rotated and pointed at different objects.
Simple model (no brackets, no textured glass), three different light-source locations:
- Spot: wide
- Spot_focus: medium
- Spot_beam: narrow
But this is where I am pretty useless. How best to place the lightsource within a model to get Cec quality renderings is Swedish to me.
spot_light_pivot.sh3d

Light-source relevant items in PluginFurnitureCatalog.properties for the three downlights (other properties snipped):
id#12=okh#spot7
name#12=Spot
width#12=8
depth#12=8
height#12=10
lightSourceX#12=4
lightSourceY#12=4
lightSourceZ#12=1.5
lightSourceColor#12=#BB9854
lightSourceDiameter#12=3

id#13=okh#spot7_focus
name#13=Spot_focus
width#13=8
depth#13=8
height#13=10
lightSourceX#13=4
lightSourceY#13=4
lightSourceZ#13=7
lightSourceColor#13=#BB9854
lightSourceDiameter#13=2.5

id#14=okh#spot7_beam
name#14=Spot_beam
width#14=8
depth#14=8
height#14=10
lightSourceX#14=4
lightSourceY#14=4
lightSourceZ#14=8.8
lightSourceColor#14=#BB9854
lightSourceDiameter#14=0.8


ok

PS Takk for omtanken, Cec. Bedre nå.
[Oct 9, 2017 1:47:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
okh
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Re: How to create a down light embedded in the ceiling

Maths is confusing for lawyers, evidence depending on two events, each 70% likely, sounds pretty probable to most. Which is wrong. Never give a lawyer two variables.

Last attempt of the day, a directional downlight with
<light catalogId='okh#spot_dir_cut' name='Spot_focus_dir' creator='okh' model='1/downlight_directional.obj' icon='0' x='69.5' y='290.55923' width='20.0' depth='10.0' height='10.0' modelSize='14936' staircaseCutOutShape='m .52,0.5 a .23,.46 0,0,1 .46,0 a .23,.46 0,0,1 -.46,0 z' power='0.4'>
<lightSource x='0.25' y='0.5' z='0.7' color='00BB9854' diameter='0.125'/>
</light>
Point is, concept works, but the two variables are hard to handle. For me, anyway. LightSource diameter, LightSource placement in model. Which is the better generic model?

All models in spot_light_cutout_dir.sh3d should be placed 0,5 cm below the ceiling for the cutout to work.
The Spot_focus_dir model can be adjusted in height to raise/lower the beam.

But is any of this useful? Not sure. Could it be with the right settings. Probably...

ok
spot_light_cutout_dir.sh3d

[Oct 9, 2017 6:27:18 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Ceciliabr
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Re: How to create a down light embedded in the ceiling

@okh

Perfect!

(...) to get Cec quality renderings is Swedish to me.

Swedish is easy – user manuals, on the other hand, can be as understandable as some secret variation of ancient Mongolian tribal lingo.

Sometimes I get the feeling that instruction manuals are written by men who are so familiar with the product that they are completely
unable to view it from a users point of view. That's probably the reason why most products ( and computer programs) no longer comes
with a hardcopy of the user manual. Everyone knows that the user manual is headed for the trash bin anyway, along with the unbreakable
plastic wrapping – once you're able to open it...

The FurnitureLibraryEditor doesn't come wrapped in plastic – but it comes with an option to load a furniture... ... from where?
Where do I find the piece of furniture I want to load into the FurnitureLibraryEditor? Why doesn't it just point me to the right directory, like other
programs do? And where did they dig up this prehistoric version of the file manager?

Well, that's why I'm so glad there are lawyers around – intelligent people, who are able to decipher these cryptic instructions, and actually do something useful with these programs.

Simplicity, right!
Sometimes I'm on the wrong planet...
There is no need for any mounting bracket. The bracket is just make-up and at best only serves the purpose of creating an illusion.
There are other ways – and better ways – of creating an illusion, and, bluntly speaking; if the illusion breaks as a consequence of a missing mounting bracket, I'd say it wasn't
much of an illusion to begin with.
The illusion lies in the way we use lights. Light and shadow – the difference between a Q1 and a Q4 rendering. Maybe it's Swedish, but it isn't Mongolian.

Here is some Swedish:



My own 5 basic rules:

1) Never tick the "Add ceiling light"-box. It ruins every rendering.
2) Try to avoid lighting up the ceiling ( unless it's the Sistine Chapel or the lounge of the Berner's Hotel).
3) Use a lot of light sources, and keep the intensity low – very low!
4) Don't let walls obstruct the placement of the camera. It's better to temporarily remove or alter walls than to shoot at extreme wide angles.
5) Try different light settings and make A LOT of previews at low resolution ( Q3 - 400px) before rendering a high quality photo.




I took the liberty of substituting the wardrobe doors with mirrors. Hope you don't mind. And, as you can see, the male wardrobe now has got it's own spotlight.

No mounting brackets in use!


The SH3D project is HERE

Cec

ps,
I haven't got around to trying the cut-out version yet. I will... maybe tomorrow.



pps
(Sukk... ingen Calva på meg de nesrte seks månedene...)
ds

[Oct 9, 2017 10:26:46 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    http://cecprojects.wordpress.com [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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