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scjo
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Publishing Models of Protected Designs

I am making a parts library of the Balton® shelving system manufactured in Germany.
Question: What is the legal situation regarding my models?
  • Can I publish them commercially resp. non-commercially?
  • What do I have to comply with?
  • What rights do I have to the models and what rights does the manufacturer of the originals have?
  • I have sent a request to the manufacturer, but they don't take it important enough to reply. Can I take this as “no objection”?
Emmanuel Puybaret went through the same thing with IKEA a time ago, but at least they explicitly refused.

Is anyone familiar with the legal situation, especially in Germany? The answer doesn't have to be court-proof. I would take a residual risk.
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Cheers - Joe //
[Nov 2, 2024, 3:57:28 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Keet
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Re: Publishing Models of Protected Designs

Disclaimer: IANAL (I am not a lawyer)

First of all, you as the designer and creator has to decide what license you would like. As long as you don't use the name Balton or any references to it you can almost do anything you want with your models.

If you do want to use the brand name Balton you can ask for permission to attach the name to your models. The can say yes or no. They might even like to distribute them from their own site as a marketing tool if the models are really good. You don't know until you ask.

Or you can not ask and just distribute them as models of Balton furniture. In that case you better not do it with a commercial license where you get paid for the models because that could get you into trouble. Free distribution should not be a problem. If they find out they might ask to cease distribution but most likely they will do nothing, unless the models are really bad and they don't want to be associated with that. From what I have seen so far I expect to see good quality models.

On dodecagon.nl I publish all my models under the CC0 1.0 Universal license: public domain without the need to acknowledge the original creator. But of course that are all custom models with my own created virtual brand "Dodecagon", not models that represent existing furniture.

The IKEA situation was (is) different because IKEA creates their own tools for design. Unless Balton also has such tools I don't see why they would have a problem with well designed models that represent Balton parts and are named as "3D models of Balton furniture". It's not like you create real copies of Balton furniture that you are selling. So again: don't make it commercial and you are probably good.
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Dodecagon.nl
950+ 3D models, manuals, and projects
[Nov 2, 2024, 6:27:31 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
scjo
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Re: Publishing Models of Protected Designs

Thanks a lot for that enlightening answer! I was feeling pretty much like what you elaborated. Thanks also for the license suggestion, which I will adopt, and for pointing out the difference to the IKEA case. Indeed, the Balton manufacturer do not offer any digital tools beyond a catalogue PDF, neither did they respond to my offer to provide the models.

I expect to see good quality models
Thank you for the flowers. I'm trying my best (couldn't resistwink).
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Cheers - Joe //
[Nov 2, 2024, 8:30:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Keet
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Re: Publishing Models of Protected Designs

Good try. Is there really a split in the cylinders like in your example? From what I can see on models these are plain cylinders without a split. With the split the outer parts will float free in the air smile

Good use of the dodecagon format but... pick your batlles for optimization: for a grill shelf, great, a lot of cylinders and thin. For the thicker sides I would use 24 or 32 sides. Sure the model gets bigger but there are just a few sides in a shelving system and with smoothing you get perfect cylinders.

To make it really perfect the ends need a little bevel that gets rounded with smoothing. But that is something you would only see in a real close-up view. Easy to create if you don't need it texturable but use it with white and the mirror effect to get chrome.

Do you have specifications like cylinder thicknesses, positions and elevations of the cylinders, etc.?
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Dodecagon.nl
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[Nov 2, 2024, 10:04:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
scjo
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Re: Publishing Models of Protected Designs

The master model of this OBJ does not consist of cylinders, but instead of pairs of irregular hexagonal plus octagonal prisms whose simplest common hull is a regular dodecagonal prismwink. The mesh is not an approximation but represents the master's shape exactly. It would be possible to manufacture but useless as it would fall apart.

During my usual work however, the bars are cylindrical and get tessellated only upon export into a mesh OBJ. Just for fun, I took the liberty to change the bars' master profile from a circle to the outline of your logo. Do you know FreeCAD? With that it's just a few mouse clicks, no big deal. If you wish I send the CAD model by PN.
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Cheers - Joe //
[Nov 2, 2024, 11:19:20 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
scjo
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Re: Publishing Models of Protected Designs

To make it really perfect the ends need a little bevel that gets rounded with smoothing. But that is something you would only see in a real close-up view. Easy to create if you don't need it texturable but use it with white and the mirror effect to get chrome.
Absolutely correct. And I have not even made placeholders for the connecting clamps, neither the feet, and the thin bars' ends need to be tapered, and so on. That's why I have not come up with OBJs yet.

But as the master model is parametric, it's easy to change any detail of its constructing history any time, for instance the choice of bar profile. For producing the OBJs I, will not leave it up to the mesher how to approximate cylinders, but rather define the prisms myself. The production process itself is automated by a macro hence cheap.
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Cheers - Joe //
[Nov 2, 2024, 11:54:12 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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